The Goliath Sourcing Academy is the podcast for everyone who is into property investing. Listen to Mark Dunsmore as he talks about a variety of different property sourcing related strategies, tactics, hints and tips. We go deep into various innovative and advanced strategies for sourcing better and more property deals.
The Facebook Q&A this episode is: “I’m currently sourcing a list of direct-to-vendor properties for sale and building an investor from scratch. Which side am I representing? I understand that I can only receive my fees from one side, so which side should I charge?”.
Listen to Mark’s brilliant answers in the podcast.
With so many so many strategies, property types, income goals etc it’s easy to get overwhelmed, try to do too much and actually nothing gets done well. In this episode Marks talks us through the process of how to find the right answers by giving you great questions to ask yourself. THe then talks you through the various facets of how to stay focused and ensure you remain consistent with your implementation. Whether you’re listen in 2017 or not these are timeless lessons.
With the massive increase in business and marketing podcasts over the last few years it’s easy to become overwhelmed with the choice. In this episode Brad talks you through not only his top 5 biz and marketing podcasts but also offers an insight into the lessons they’ve taught him over the years. Listen to the podcast and see if you agree.
Get the free resources mentioned in this show at http://goliathsourcingacademy.com/session17
“Sourcing With Mark” – Property Sourcing Marketing Cheat Sheet – Best methods for each strategy
“In The Lab With Brad” – 15 business and marketing podcasts worth listening to
Full transcript available for download
Download at http://goliathsourcingacademy.com/session17
17:40 Facebook group Q & A Session
17:40 Best solution for the property owner
20:36 Charging both sides
21:17 Common practice
22:47 Answer summary
24:10 Sourcing with Mark – Getting Started in Property Deal Sourcing in 2017
25:04 Diluting the message
26:06 Decide your income target
36:41 In The Lab with Brad – Top 5 Business and Marketing Podcasts and what they’ve taught me
38:17 1. I Love Marketing
39:12 2. Conversion Cast
41:34 3. Superfast Business
42:59 4. Active Marketer
44:40 5. The Start Up Podcast
With so many so many strategies, property types, income goals etc it’s easy to get overwhelmed, try to do too much and actually nothing gets done well. In this episode Marks talks us through the process of how to find the right answers by giving you great questions to ask yourself. He then talks you through the various facets of how to stay focused and ensure you remain consistent with your implementation. Whether you’re listening in 2017 or not these are timeless lessons. You’ll learn:
With the massive increase in business and marketing podcasts over the last few years it’s easy to become overwhelmed with the choice. In this episode Brad talks you through not only his top 5 biz and marketing podcasts but also offers an insight into the lessons they’ve taught him over the years. Listen to the podcast and see if you agree. You’ll learn:
To follow is the transcript of the Facebook Q&A, Sourcing With Mark and In The Lab With Brad.
Mark: Okay, so welcome back to the Q and A. We left it on a bit of a cliff-hanger and I’m sure everyone is poised on the edge of their seats. Hopefully those of you that are driving have pulled over with the excitement, to keep the road safe. But I’ll read the question again and then what we’ll do is I’ll break the question down into parts, so that we answer it in full.
This should really give people something to think about today. With regards to charging fees, it has always been a big question we get asked a lot, don’t we Brad? How much should I charge? How do you work out the fee? How do you work out what fee I should charge on a certain strategy type?
But we’ve never been asked about which side you’re representing and then about your fees only coming from one side, which is generally the investor. So I’m going to sort of break it all apart and hopefully it’ll give people something to think about.
Now the first part of the question is “Which side am I representing? I’m currently sourcing a list of direct to vendor properties for sale and building an investor list from scratch. Which side am I representing?” The best way that I can answer this is to remember that you always represent both sides. So you will always be representing the seller and you also are representing the buyer.
Of course if you’re working with another source they’re probably going to be representing the investor if they broker this. But for the sake of this answer we’re going to be referring to, you’ve got the investor and you found a direct vendor lead.
Now the key to property sourcing is that the first thing you should always think about is finding the best solution for the property owner. The property owner has come to you off the back of some sort of marketing, whether it’s referrals, whether it’s direct mail, whether it’s through leafleting, they’ve come to you to solve a property problem. So, in this respect you are representing the seller because you need to find the best solution for their individual circumstances.
The investor is the person who is going to buy that deal from you and you will then represent the investor through the transaction as well.
But as a sourcer, you are an intermediary between both the seller and the investor. So always remember that you are solving the property problem for the owner and then you’re finding the investment deal for the investor because without either you’ve got no business. So if you’ve got a seller but no investor, or an investor but no property leads, you will have no business. You need to treat them both as importantly as each other, that’s really important.
Quite often people think they’re representing the investors but really it should almost work the other way. Just because the seller in a lot of instances doesn’t pay your fee, doesn’t mean that you’re not representing them as well because you need both parties to amicably and smoothly progress through the transaction in order to ensure you get your fee.
Now what that brings me onto nicely are the fees. So I mentioned that often the case is that the investor is going to be paying the property sourcing fee but that’s not always the case. The second part of Paul’s question was “I understand I can only receive my fees from one side. So which side should I charge?”
Now the reality is that there is absolutely nothing stating that you can only receive your fees from one party. There is nothing that states that you can’t charge the seller a selling fee and the buyer a buying fee. Some property sourcing agents actually represent the property seller and don’t charge the investor a fee. They actually charge the seller a fee for selling the property.
Now you will generally not get as high a fee from the seller as you do from an investor. But again it all depends on the numbers in the deal so just remember some sourcers represent the seller, so it’s the seller that pays a fee in the same way that an estate agent would represent the seller. So the contract between you the source, is with the seller. The investor doesn’t pay a fee.
There are also other sources who charge both the seller and the investor a fee.
So you charge a seller a fee for selling and the investor a fee for buying. This way you can reduce the fee.
You are not charging the same as an estate agent might charge to the seller and then you can also then charge the investor a smaller property sourcing fee to buy the deal, so you don’t end up worse off as the sourcer.
But in effect both parties have paid to sell the property. Then of course you’ve got the most commonly used, which is the investor pays your fee on completion. And yeah they may pay reservation fees to get details etc. but the point is the investor pays your fee.
There’s no right or wrong. Like I say, the most common practice is the investor pays. But what I would say is that it very much depends on the situation, the circumstances of the seller as to whether you’re going to charge the seller a fee at all.
Quite often as property sourcers we are dealing with sellers who are in a position where they may be in financial difficulty or it may be an emotionally difficult time.
And the reality is do we really want to throw in another cost to what is potentially already a very difficult situation. So assess the seller’s circumstances, as to whether you can you can or you should charge them a fee. But then what’s really important is make sure that the fee arrangement whatever it might be is drawn up in in an agreement with the parties that are going to pay you the fee.
So whether that’s with the seller, with the buyer or with both. Make sure that you’ve got it drawn into an agreement. You’ve got email confirmation that they agree to the fee to the investor that you can include it in your deal calculation and get them to acknowledge that the fee is chargeable. With the sellers it’s more important probably to get a selling contract in the same way as an estate agent but just make sure it is drawn up in an agreement.
That’s the long answer Paul.
In short. “Which side am I representing?” – Both. “I understand I can only receive my fees from one side.” – Not correct. You can receive a fee from either party or all parties. It just depends on the deal itself.
Brad: Whoa! What a monster! What a monster of an answer, monster being good of course.
Brad: Well, thank you Paul. We really appreciate such great questions. I really like testing Mark on stuff like that.
Mark: Yes I love questions like that.
Brad: I know you do. And you could just tell in your voice.
Brad: Yeah. Absolutely.
Mark: The destructive sourcer.
Brad: So moving on, if anyone’s got any questions, please post them up into the free Facebook group. That’s GoliathFBgroup.com and that’ll send you straight through to the Goliath Sourcing Academy free Facebook group where you can just join in the conversations. It has been very busy in there lately. We’re going to actually start inviting some more experts in there so we can get a lot more people’s questions answered. So come in and get involved.
Mark: Welcome to this session’s Sourcing with Mark. I’m very excited to be back on the podcast records. And I thought it’s March and we are nearly a quarter of the way into the year. Scary stuff!
What I wanted to do was just run into getting started in property sourcing in 2017. It’s got so much to consider. But where should I begin? And the biggest reason I thought I’d start this is the number of calls I’ve had in the recent weeks. With the launch of our platinum program and the future launch of other products, the people I’ve had calls from seem overwhelmed. People are really struggling with so many strategies to choose from, so many different property types, so many different income goals. What’s the best thing to do in order to achieve X? What do I do to find Y?
The biggest issue with having too much to go at is that if you try and go at everything you dilute your message and your marketing can become incredibly expensive. And the reason it becomes incredibly expensive is because what you’re in effect doing is targeting all different strategies. Now if you target all different strategies what you’re going to have are several different messages. Several different messages get targeted at several different people and now several different people respond in different ways.
So, of course the biggest issue with that is you’re going to spend a lot of money, you’re not going to have a very strong message, you’re not going to have a very consistent message which means you’re not going to get the results. What we need to do is choose a strategy, choose a property type and go and get those deals.
What we’re going to run into in this session. First of all: how to make a decision. So if you’re sourcing for yourself, we know that there are a lot of listeners out there that aren’t necessarily interested in just setting up a property sourcing business.
So if you’re sourcing for yourself, your own portfolio, you’re going to have to get an idea in your head as to what income target you want to achieve. What do you want to achieve on a monthly basis with regards to your rental income. So, money in the bank net after all your costs. Now once you’ve got your income target, what you’re going to then do is you’re going to have to decide a strategy that’s going to get you to that income target.
Now don’t just think “Ah well HMO’s cashflow, £4000 a month, I’m going to go for those” because the reality is they are tough, they’re hard to manage.
Keeping the consistent cash flow isn’t as easy as a lot of people might make out but they are a great strategy. But if you’re just starting out, I would certainly recommend thinking about alternative strategies that are less management intensive, just to get you to dip your toes in the water. Then you can obviously progress on to the bigger stuff, but choose a strategy. So, what strategy is going to get you to your income target? You are going to lay out a plan. Once you’ve chosen the strategy and you are going to have to choose the property types that are best suited to the strategy that you’ve chosen to get your income goals. And then what marketing technique is best used to go and get those leads?
You know, is it going to be direct mail? Is it going to be private ads? Is it going to be estate agents? And yeah there are a number of different lead generation strategies and those of you that are already listening, we have a course called 20 Ways to Source Property and that is exactly what it is; 20 different ways to source property, but not every one of those ways works for every property strategy and every property type.
So you need to choose the property type, the strategy and the income target and then choose the best marketing techniques to go out there and get those leads. Now if you’re property sourcing as a business, what you want to do is you want to go and find an investor or two, maybe three maximum, to start sourcing to order for.
I’m not going to go into how to qualify your investors, that’s a whole different Sourcing with Mark.
But find those investors. They will tell you what they want so they then know what strategy they go after, they know what property type they’re going to be after, they know what income target they want to achieve. And then you follow exactly the same process. So, you know their strategy, you know their income target so now what marketing method is going to be the best to go and find those leads? And off we go to find the leads for our investors.
Now all of this is well and good but what will happen is you need to remain focused now. You’ve made the decision, you’ve chosen a new strategy, you’ve chosen your marketing techniques.
We now need to have focus. So in order to build a successful property sourcing business or as a sourcing platform for those investors that are doing it for themselves, you need to focus on what we talked about in the making a decision section. If you don’t focus you’re going to get distracted. If you get distracted you’re going to dilute the marketing message that you put out there. If you dilute your message you will get fewer leads. Fewer leads is going to mean you get less deals, less deals will mean that you get frustrated. And what happens when you get frustrated?
You start to get what we call and for those avid listeners you know we’ve referred to it before; you get deal desperate. And what that means is you will not analyse deals properly. You will try and force numbers in order to get deals over the line. You’ll start venturing out looking for different strategies because for some reason you’ve sent out four letters and you haven’t had four responses to finding an HMO, for example. And so what you’ll do is you’ll get bad deals or you will get fall-throughs, when the reality sets in half way down the progression phase.
The numbers don’t work. Or a surveyor goes out and actually finds that the market value is nowhere near what you said it was and of course that will damage you even more.
So remember, stay focused on the message, focus on the marketing activity that you’ve chosen to go down and that will lead to much more consistent results.
And that brings me onto the next stage, which is consistency. So what you need to do, when you have decided all of the above that we’ve gone through already. You’re going to need to stay consistent with the marketing that you send out. Don’t think that the first batch of the letters that you send out, if you’re going to use direct mail as a marketing method, is going to yield amazing results, because realistically it’s not.
You know they’re not going to get the best results ever. But what you need to do is you need to be realistic. So I’m telling you now that you will not get great results from the first batch of letters that you send. Remember that when you send them out. Be realistic because this will help you stay focused and consistent in the marketing approach that you’ve got. Because most marketing strategies to be brutally honest, the purpose of a marketing message is to build rapport. You’ve got to win trust and you want the property owner to take action and get in touch with you.
Now whether this is an email on a Gumtree lead, whether it’s a direct mail letter, whether it’s a Facebook advert where you’re getting people to read your message. The point is, do you really think that they are going to trust you? Know, like and trust you after one message? One letter? One Facebook ad and one email on Gumtree? One conversation? The honest answer is no they’re not. You know they’re not unless they are incredibly motivated and they’re just desperate for some sort of solution and you hit them at the right time which does happen. But they’re not the ones that we’re wanting to build up a consistent approach for.
We want to build that know-like-trust message so that the people that are receiving those letters start to trust you. I think the marketing industry guideline is something like four to seven points of contact is what it takes to gain a customer’s trust.
Now four to seven points of contact might mean phone calls. It might mean adverts hitting them, the Facebook advert coming up in their feed a few times. It might mean seven letters, four to seven letters that you need to send out, leaflet drops if you are still leaflet dropping. You want to be doing that on a consistent basis every four to six weeks, dropping it again, dropping it again, dropping it again.
But as you can tell, 4 to 7 points of contact does not happen within your first 30 days of marketing. So you’ve got to be very realistic. As with all the Sourcing With Marks, I can’t go into massive detail because there is so much to go into.
To conclude just to get you going in 2017, to get you more disciplined and consistent in your approach to get you better results, you want to make sure you choose a strategy that you’re going to source for.
Now this doesn’t mean that if something else comes up you’re not going to package and sell that on but your focus needs to be on one strategy. This is because that one strategy is going to give you a specific marketing method or a specific number of marketing techniques to generate the leads for that strategy.
Then you need to go and take action. It’s all well and good doing all this prep but if you don’t take the action and send the letters out, you’re never going to start. Remember, the quicker you start, the quicker you’re starting to build that rapport and trust with the property owners that you’re sending letters out to.
You need to remember to be consistent. Send those letters out on a regular basis. Drop those leaflets on a regular weekly basis. Get a plan together, a marketing plan and the most important thing of all with any property sourcing and deal packaging strategy. Whether you’re doing it for yourself, building up a business you’ve got to be patient.
So you’ve got to make sure that you’ve got patience. You have faith in the system. Faith in what we promote and teach and help with. And if you keep all of that consistency, you keep the focus, you keep the drive and you stick to your decisions, you will have success in property sourcing. Whether it’s in your first month, in your first three months, the point is the success will come on the basis that you remain consistent. The biggest thing with consistency is that the majority of property sourcers out there are not consistent in the approach that they take. So as they fall by the wayside you can pile through and pick up all the leads that they’ve done, they’ve worked hard to build by sending out the first letter.
But they’ve not sent out the second, third and fourth. And what will happen is they’re helping you because by the time you get to the fourth and fifth letter and they are ready to pick the phone up they can’t remember whether it is your letter or someone else’s.
The point is your letter comes to you offering the same thing and they will get in touch. And that’s what I want you to do as a guide to starting sourcing. Hope you’ve enjoyed the first Sourcing with Mark of the new season and as always, happy sourcing!
Brad: Hi and welcome to this episode’s In The Lab With Brad. My Top Five Business and Marketing Podcasts and the Lessons They’ve Taught Me. So, podcasts are one of my favourite things. I have to say, I remember listening to podcasts on a first or second generation iPod which must have been probably over 10 years ago now. And I’ll be honest, I really can’t even remember what I was listening to back then.
Probably some music based content. But roll forward just a few years from when I started listening to podcasts and I became obsessed with taking in as much info as I could around marketing and business in general. Now like most avid podcast fans, I must have listened to thousands and thousands of hours of content and I’ve always been into running and endurance sport, which has given me loads of opportunity to have extended periods of listening time.
Nothing gives me greater pleasure than going out for a long run. Having two or three podcasts teed up, I really can’t think of a better leverage of time. So rather than give you a long and exhaustive list of podcasts that I’ve listened to, I thought it would be more insightful just to keep it a little bit more succinct, so down to five and stay within the business digital marketing topic niche. I also want to take this opportunity to give you some kind of insight into some of the key lessons that I’ve learnt from each of the podcasts.
So when I say lessons I’m really referring to the overall themes, the approaches and the ideas that I take from each podcast and why I find them useful. So, in no particular order here goes:
Now this is a podcast called I Love Marketing. The show must be in its fifth or sixth year and at the time of recording they’re touching about 300 episodes. So it’s presented by two guys; Dean Jackson and Joe Polish, both U.S. based. Dean’s background is very much in real estate. He was a realtor in the U.S. and Joe, in his words, was a dead broke carpet cleaner.
Both of them actually found direct response marketing. So Dean went on to be very successful in real estate and then teach people the system that he used to grow his business and the same with Joe in carpet cleaning. It was a carpet cleaner and then Joe grew his carpet cleaning business and then went on to sell millions of dollars of marketing training products.
But it’s actually Dean that had the bigger influence on me and I actually paid a lot of money to attend one of his three-day mastermind’s sessions in London a few years ago.
The experience of being in that mastermind’s session for me was being absolutely mind- blowing. Being so immersed in deep level marketing conversations with like-minded business owners that totally understood the power of marketing and the way it could shift businesses on to a higher level. It just such a great experience.
Now the biggest lesson that I take from Dean is that all the tools and the apps and the latest marketing fads, all of those in the world don’t give you the business breakthroughs. Actually having absolute clarity on who your target audience is, taking the time to be clear on understanding what they’re thinking, what conversation is going on in their minds and then going on to construct your message to connect with them. That’s what gives you breakthroughs in business.
Okay so next one is a podcast called Conversion Cast. Now this is the podcast from lead pages. Lead pages are a kind of software app company that help you build landing pages and generate leads, you might have heard of it. They’re quite popular they seem to have crossed over and are more like the Internet Marketing sphere. So I really love the format of this podcast, as it’s really no more than 15 minutes long and very tactical.
Each episode they have a guest on that has run a series of digital marketing experiments and come up with a winning campaign formula that has helped them grow their business. They share the campaign step by step with a listener. Now if I’m looking for ideas in how to increase click-through rates, opt ins, reduced my cost per leads and so on, this is where I go for inspiration. The big lesson here is that everything is a test.
I’m always in mind of how lucky we actually are these days, that we can so quickly and cheaply test an idea and prove or disprove an assumption as little as 10 to 15 years ago it would have cost 10 – 15 times more than it does now to run a simple marketing test.
So this podcast is the embodiment of how and why we should be testing all of the time.
So next is Superfast Business. I’ve been a fan of this podcast for many, many years. It’s presented by a guy called James Schramko from Australia, who really walks the walk. Now there is no set format to this podcast, as he likes to mix things up a lot. He’ll go straight from one on one interviews with experts in specific niches, to interviews with students of his that have had success through a short, sharp tactical or strategic business tips.
Now what I’ve always liked about James is that he always forces you to zoom out and look at the business from a 10,000ft view and try to keep things simple. He successfully built and sold service-based businesses of up to 40 virtual staff. I’ve always believed in the virtual business model and James is proof that it doesn’t just mean that virtual business is the business owner and just one or two VAs.
He’s shown that you can build a virtual business with an effective management structure, systems and processes that can be even more efficient than traditional business. So while there isn’t a specific kind of digital marketing lesson to pick out here, the bigger virtual business lesson I take from the content of the podcast keeps my virtual business vision on track, so to speak.
Now I’m a big fan of systems and automation and it’s incredible what levels of marketing and sales automation we’re able to do these days with no human input, that five years ago would have taken hours for an individual to do. This podcast is all about that.
Now more specifically, it’s about using the email marketing automation software called Active Campaign within your marketing campaigns. But you don’t have to be a user of Active Campaign to get great value out of this podcast, so don’t let that stop you.
In and amongst the more tactical content there are interviews with marketing and business automation experts, so just listen to two or three episodes and you’ll be filled with a ton of ideas of the potential that you can implement and take into your business. So the lesson here is that marketing automation is seriously powerful and that every day, what we consider to be traditional businesses, are discovering how they can engage, connect and sell more products and services to their customers in a more efficient way then than we ever really thought possible.
So, just one caveat here and be mindful of the lesson that Dean Jackson, in the I love Marketing podcast, taught me that no amount of automation or gadgets or whatever, will work if you haven’t first taken the time to understand your audience.
Okay, so finally a podcast called The Start Up Podcast. I’ve really grown to love this podcast over the last few months. Their strap line is a podcast for what it’s really like to get a business off the ground and I have to say it does exactly what it says on the tin.
The podcasts are essentially a series of real life stories about the experiences of various business owners in their start-ups and as they go about trying to build their businesses. It’s really very cleverly produced, with a narrator who occasionally drops in between the main content.
Now that main content is real life conversations between the co-founders, so you’re being a voyeur essentially and you’re listening in on the conversations of the co-founders. Or maybe the conversations with the founders and their suppliers and the staff. In a few episodes you get to hear the conversations between a founder and his wife or his girlfriend about you know when he’s at a low point, or when things are going really well, whether they need to shut the business down.
So it’s really a fascinating kind of insight and it’s absolutely compelling. Being business owners ourselves, we have many ups and downs and after listening to these stories, I think you’ll find it really comforting to know that there are business owners all over the world going through exactly what we’re all going through.